Lee, Francisco to the Phillies

Nothing confirmed yet from the Indians’ end, but MLB.com’s Todd Zolecki is reporting that the Indians and Phillies have worked out a trade involving reigning Cy Young Award winner Cliff Lee.

According to the report, the Indians would send Lee and outfielder Ben Francisco to the Phillies in exchange for a package of four prospects: Class A right-hander Jason Knapp and Triple-A right-hander Carlos Carrasco, shortstop Jason Donald and catcher Lou Marson.

More info as I hear it.

UPDATE: Knapp is 18 years old and has a fastball that can reach 98 mph, but he hasn’t pitched since July 11 because of shoulder soreness. Carrasco was one of the players the Indians discussed during the CC Sabathia talks last summer. Donald just came back from knee surgery. Marson is a premier catching prospect. Not sure if his inclusion signals that another deal is on the horizon.

It appears this deal is done, pending physicals, but as of this writing the Indians still have not confirmed. That could change at any moment. Follow me here for the latest.

55 Comments

Doesn’t seem like we should have received a little more, or at least something that’s a little closer to the majors? Seems like Shapiro is giving up on 2010. Wonder what this means for Victor?

why would they want marson and not another pitcher? it seems like they forgot this isn’t 2008. marson, donald, and carrassco were top prospects last year who have been passed by drabek, brown, taylor, knapp. Cliff Lee won a Cy Young and is having a very good year. Knapp could be good but is a few years away and already has should fatigue. I just don’t see how couldnt have gotten more.

Wow! I’ve got to say I’m fairly disappointed. The Phils made out pretty good in this one. I’ve been a Tribe fan my whole life but moved to Philly three years ago so I know the organization fairly well. Carrasco has failed to show any signs of improvement since he was touted as the Phils best prospect 2 years ago. Marson did very little during his cup of coffee this season and we have Santana as our prized catching prospect. Knapp is highly touted but at Class-A it is way too early to tell and many things can go wrong. Donald looks great but that would mean once again we would have to shift Cabrera back to second, where his offensive numbers are not the same as when he plays his natural position at short. AC, please spin this in a better light so I can calm down a little.

ESPN is announcing this RIGHT deal now. Now I say that Mark Shapiro must be FIRED! I do not care IF the Dolans told him that he has to cut payroll. That’s fine and dandy. It’s business and now we will assume that Martinez will also be jettisoned for the same reason.

BUT to make a deal without obtaining ONE of the Phillies prized players (Michael Taylor, Dominic Brown, Kyle Drabek or J.A. Happ) is a total JOKE! You are under-selling your big trade chip. I would have rather deal Lee to the Dodgers for some of their pitchers. WHY in God’s name did we ask for a shortstop and catcher in return?

What the hell is Shapiro thinking b/c a team that needs pitching should not trade their ace for a team’s #4 pitching prospect.

Doesn’t seem like we should have received a little more, or at least something that’s a little closer to the majors? Seems like Shapiro is giving up on 2010. Wonder what this means for Victor?

Doesn’t seem like we should have received a little more, or at least something that’s a little closer to the majors? Seems like Shapiro is giving up on 2010. Wonder what this means for Victor?

For the first time, Shapiro has failed. Carlos Carrasco and Jason Donald are not very good and Marson is going to play where? Knapp could very well be phenomenal, but his Mark Prior delivery is not promising. Francisco is a fine example of addition by subtraction, though.

Bah……I’m not sure I like this. I want to take a look at these guys a little further. But, if this is the deal we were “Bowled over” with, I would hate to see what a less impressive deal would be.

For the first time, Shapiro has failed. Carlos Carrasco and Jason Donald are not very good and Marson is going to play where? Knapp could very well be phenomenal, but his Mark Prior delivery is not promising. Francisco is a fine example of addition by subtraction, though.

Bah……I’m not sure I like this. I want to take a look at these guys a little further. But, if this is the deal we were “Bowled over” with, I would hate to see what a less impressive deal would be.

This might quite possibly be Mark Shapiro’s worst trade ever. We essentially are getting squat in return. Carrasco’s ERA is 5! Why did we want Marson? We have Santana! Knapp is 18 and had an ERA of 4.. he’s still years away.. and Jason Donald is hitting .236! Give me a break!!

This might quite possibly be Mark Shapiro’s worst trade ever. We essentially are getting squat in return. Carrasco’s ERA is 5! Why did we want Marson? We have Santana! Knapp is 18 and had an ERA of 4.. he’s still years away.. and Jason Donald is hitting .236! Give me a break!!

Jason Donald is blocked by a rising star at SS in Asdrubal Cabrera. Lou Marson will be blocked by a potential stud-in-the-making. Some guy named Carlos Santana. Jason Knapp has already been shut down with shoulder fatugue. Carlos Carrasco doesn’t impress me at all. As nick.lucca said, “it’s not 2008.”

This deal makes me sick. While I understand that baseball is a business and we have an owner that perhaps instructed Shapiro to cut payroll but NO ONE else in the league had to know about it. Thus, we shouldn’t have been low-balled by other teams for Lee and potentially Martinez. What a joke.

I am furious at this deal. Sure it is nice getting rid of Francisco BUT: Drabek, Happ or Brown were NOT included for a pitcher who won 22 games last year? Where exactly IS Marson going to play, since we have Santana, Toregas, Gimenez! Donald has NO power whatsoever and Knapp is on the DL with shoulder fatigue. Great job Shapiro…I really hope you aren’t back next year.

I am furious at this deal. Sure it is nice getting rid of Francisco BUT: Drabek, Happ or Brown were NOT included for a pitcher who won 22 games last year? Where exactly IS Marson going to play, since we have Santana, Toregas, Gimenez! Donald has NO power whatsoever and Knapp is on the DL with shoulder fatigue. Great job Shapiro…I really hope you aren’t back next year.

is it wrong to hope that SOMEONE fails a physical in this dea to rescind itl? I cannot imagine that Knapp would pass his physical given his shoulder issues.

is it wrong to hope that SOMEONE fails a physical in this deal to rescind itl? I cannot imagine that Knapp would pass his physical given his shoulder issues.

One can only hope that another deal is in motion to send Vic to Boston for Buchholz. I’m just going to give Shapiro the benefit of the doubt that Texas didn’t show any serious interest. If he passed on Feliz and additional prospects, I am going to be increasingly more upset.

the system is in overload with all the responses. it cannot keep pace with our displeasures and is duplicating all the comments. AWESOME JOB MARK!

One can only hope that another deal is in motion to send Vic to Boston for Buchholz. I’m just going to give Shapiro the benefit of the doubt that Texas didn’t show any serious interest. If he passed on Feliz and additional prospects, I am going to be increasingly more upset.

Wow… this is turning into a real-life version of the movie “Major League.” Though it’s sad to say we didn’t even get Rick “Wild-Thing” Vaughn… as it turns out, Shapiro could only sign Charlie Sheen.

Hey, I don’t know. Have him wear some enormous glasses, and I just might be fooled into watching another couple games this season.

I am willing to give this trade a year or two before I begin to judge it. Prospects can be hard to judge. Nobody knew what would become of Grady and Lee when we got them, and everyone expected Phillips to become “The guy”. He eventually did, but no one could have predicted Montreal was giving up three future All Stars.

It would have been nice to get one of those two or three guys Toronto really wanted, but at the end of the day, all these guys are nothing but names to me. I haven’t seen them play, I don’t know what they are capable of, but I do know, for the most part, Shapiro and his team have done a pretty good job over the years in these situations, so I am willing to withhold judgment. It is disappointing though to have given up on next year…

Jayson Stark keeps referring to Lou Marson as :the heir apparent to Victor Martinez.”

What an idiot! He must be friends with Shapiro.

Don’t try to sugarcoat this deal for us, Tribe Fans. We got hosed. Hard.

The trade doesn’t even make sense. We traded for 2 top fielding prospects (SS + C) whom are both currently blocked by better pieces to the Tribe’s future. This may very well be Shapiro’s worst trade in history.

Wow… this is turning into a real-life version of the movie “Major League.” Though it’s sad to say we didn’t even get Rick “Wild-Thing” Vaughn… as it turns out, Shapiro could only sign Charlie Sheen.

Hey, I don’t know. Have him wear some enormous glasses, and I just might be fooled into watching another couple games this season.

This deal is BS! The Phillies gave up nothing! Not one of the top prospects that were being discussed in a potential Hallady trade. Does someone need to tell Shapiro that it’s quality not quantity that matters. And what the heck do we want a catching prospect for! I am so angry right now!

And jkrumwiede said it right, if this was the deal that Shaprio was “bowled over” with I hate to see the other offers he considered.

It really saddens me that we’ve given up on 2010 now ? here I was yesterday thinking that if we kept Lee and V-Mart that we might have a shot next year. Well F the front office and F the Dolans ? it’s gonna be a long time till I visit the ball park again.

What really gets me is that we had the pieces to compete next year, and salary had already been dumped (Garko, Betencourt, DeRosa), so why did we need to do this! I understand that if Shapiro got “overwhelmed” by a deal then it might make sence to deal, but this trade is NOT overwhelming. So in the process we’ve now given up on next year, given away our top trading piece for very little of use, and now made sure that attendance will be down 40% for next year meaning the Dolans will have even less money to spend. Well this all seems great doesn’t it. I hope you can sleep at night Shapiro. Thanks for trashing our team for the next 4 years

May as well get rid of Grady, Choo and Drubie now?.. what’s the point?..

as a Phillies phan, I can’t help but agree with you all. We got a legit #1 pitcher without giving up any of our top prospects. However, you should realize that Knapp is going to be a great pitcher one day. He throws at 96MPH and leads the minors in K’s (yes, the entire minors, not only A ball). Carlos is a legit #2-3 pitcher next year if he gets his attitude together. His ERA is bloated by some early trouble, check splits the last few months. Donald is ****/2B who would be in the MLB already but is blocked here by Utley and Rollins. Marson is a great hitting C who is good behind the plate as well. I know you have Santana, but you play in the baby league with the DH. Also, you need two legit C’s in the majors. Not quite as bad as you make it out to be.

So who’s our fourth outfielder, now that we’ve lost Francisco and Wedge’s favorite Garko? Does this mean that we’ll finally… *gasp*… get to see Matt LaPorta? And would it even be worth it if he’s not playing 5 times a week? I really like Giminez, but LaPorta’s the one we need to see. Also, do we have anyone besides Sizemore and Brantley in Columbus that can play CF? And does this mean Ohka’s back in the rotation?

Our lineup for the rest of the season should be something like:

1. Sizemore CF
2. Cabrera SS
3. Choo RF
4. Martinez C
5. Peralta SS
6. Hafner DH
7. LaPorta LF
8. Valbuena 2B
9. Marte 1B.

Giminez should be the fourth outfielder but with decent playing time (make Grady sit out for his elbow or give LaPorta a rest).

If I’m Victor and Grady, I demand to be traded and get the F out of this organization.

Enjoy the rest of this god-forsaken season everyone, I’m out. I want a solid, legit, honest statement from this braintrust and I know the chances of that happening are as good as winning the lottery right now.

Mr. Dolan, you’re this era’s Art Modell, except when he tanked the team, he moved it out of town.

I just want someone to explain Marson, when we already have Santana. And it is pretty bad that we didn’t get something better, but I will wait and see what comes of these guys before I start ranting on here. I would love for the organization to tell us if they are still considering the Tribe playoff contenders in 2010 or what.

Sometimes sleeping late and living on the West Coast has its disadvantages…
I’ll be honest: I darn near started to cry as I read what we got for Cliff and Ben. I am completely stunned.
The more calm people out there have pointed to the Colon deal, and that it took a couple of years for Grady and Cliff to get to the Majors after we picked them up. And I understand that.
But the Phillies were balking at Toronto because the Blue Jays wanted BOTH of their top young pitchers — and we don’t get EITHER?? I just…I don’t understand that at all. Can anyone explain that to me? I am begging, here.
I can only hope that some other deal is in the works, but what would it be? If we picked up another catcher, can moving Victor be far behind?
One game away from the World Series in 2007 and we’re in complete overhaul mode again. It’s unreal.

Here is something that struck me…
Lou Marson is one of the best catching prospects in MLB farm systems, and in AAA. The only way this makes sense is if Victor is going too.
I’m so frustrated.

Thinking slightly bigger picture here, assuming Vic is traded and Santana and Marson won’t be ready on Opening Day 2010, does that mean Kelly Shoppach will be this team’s starting catcher? As I’ve stated before, if he is on this roster next season, I will not be attending any games.

I second all the sentiments of LAclevelandfan. I want some other deal to be in the works but I don’t believe anything else is going to happen. After seeing the haul for Lee and Francisco, I can’t imagine we’d get more than a bucket of baseballs for Pavano.

As for Martinez, how can they justify trading him now when the only catchers we have ready for the Bigs are Shoppach (who has not shown he can or should be the starter) and Giminez (who is, at least for today, our starting left fielder)? If Vic’s gonna be traded, at least don’t make it Boston or New York….

Vic to Boston for Masterson and Bard would put a smile on my face. Marson is ML ready. He filled in for Ruiz in April and wasn’t awful. With an extra 4 months in AAA he should be chomping at the bit to get to the bigs now.

Actually, it wouldn’t surprise me at all if Victor is headed to Boston for some kind of package that involves Masterson or Buckholtz.
Not for nothing, but the team clearly looks demoralized on the field today.

Seems to be a terrible trade … next year’s opening day starter is … Aaron Laffey

Looking at the numbers, I think friendofthefeather is right. Marson appears to be a year ahead of Santana and could probably give Shoppach a run for his money.
Either Victor is named the every day first baseman (in which case, what do they do with Marte from here on out, unless they’ve got a deal for Peralta in the works) or they deal him, hopefully for better pitching than we got for Lee.
It’s going to be a long 48 hours.

This just in: Wedge believes Hafner has a shot to be a “solid” fourth outfielder and to “be able to hold his own out there” because he’s “really such a grinder.”

How many teams trade Cy Young’s in back to back years? And how many do it without receiving any Major League players?

tracerbullet, Crowe can play center.

“This just in: Wedge believes Hafner has a shot to be a “solid” fourth outfielder and to “be able to hold his own out there” because he’s “really such a grinder.” Bahahaha.

Chatting with a Red Sox fan friend of mine and we just came across the idea that Jason Donald was picked up to send to Boston, with Martinez, for Buckholtz.

This just in, Mark Shapiro has traded Martinez to Boston for a case of Sam Adams, Theo Epsteins home made Chowda recipe and a pony ride.
Shapiro said he was pleased with the deal, although sources said he was a little disappointed that that he didn’t get any of those Boston Baked Bean candies that he used to get at Halloween

I don’t even know how to react to this…somewhere between shock, depression, fury, hopelessness and a desire to burn all my Indians apparel and either find a new team, or have no team at all.

We were told Lee was safe unless Shapiro was overwhelmed by a deal. That was a lie…a flat out lie. The only overwhelming done in this deal is the overwhelming horrendous-ness of it.

I feel like I have more to say…but I just can’t put it into words…

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in… the saying “If it seems to good to be true, it probably is” comes to mind, I am still waiting to see what else happens… as much as the Indians fans are dissapointed, to my suprise there are Phillies fans who are still going on about still having time to get Halladay. I have to say I couldn’t believe the deal either, no matter what is said about the prospects the Tribe got, it is all speculation, on paper it definately was a one sided deal, which is why I wonder what is happening next….
Outside the Phillies Looking In
http://devilabrit.mlblogs.com

You know, my current philosophy on this (aside from the fact that trading Victor will make me cry), is that if we’re going to do this, then let’s DO IT. Send Boston Victor and whatever else for Buckholtz. Deal Peralta. Move Marte to third full time. Call up LaPorta to play first every day. Call up Brantley or Crowe to play in the OF every day. Let’s get the 2011 team out there on the field NOW. Because why beat around the bush?

Jayson Stark keeps referring to Lou Marson as :the heir apparent to Victor Martinez.”

What an idiot! He must be friends with Shapiro.

Shapiro has the magical touch when it comes to trades. He pulled Asdrubal and Choo for Eduardo Perez and Ben Broussard. Let’s not forget how he got Lee and Grady. Give him time. He clearly has a plan and it will be much easier to stomach loses with a young team getting better than an under achieving team with playoff aspirations.

Let’s hold off judgement for a while on this trade. We weren’t resigning Lee. What is really important here is what were our chances of succeeding next season? Let’s be honest? What could possibly change so dramatically between now and next season that we become contenders? Honestly, it’s nothing. This is a team in transition and it’s for the best.

What’s different between now and 2003/2004? We have a nucleus to build around. Back then it was CC in the rotation…and that was it in regards to building blocks. But now we have Choo, Sizemore, Asdrubal, and a resurgent (seriously check out that OPS, it’s refreshing) Hafner. Our lineup should be decent next year but our pitching will probably be shoddy (then again who knows? bullpens are a fickle beast that is tough to predict, perhaps we get some career years next year but this is mere musing).

Back to this trade, which I like by the way. Odds were we weren’t going to compete next season and this hauls in some good talent and clears more roster space for prospects like Laporta. The talent is nothing to scoff at. Prospects are unproven an untested. In fact I would go out and say that most prospects never truly live up to their potential. Why is it a foregone conclusion that Happ and Buchholz will amount to anything? It’s not (same goes for Carrasco and Knapp). Prospects…some pan out others don’t. But if there is one area I have faith in Shapiro, it’s scouting other teams organizations.

I’m not at all a fan of trading Jhonny, and Andy Marte certainly isn’t my 2011 third baseman (Jhonny or Chisenhall), but the rest, I agree with. Deal Carroll. Deal Wood. Deal Shoppach. To shy away from the trading aspect, when are Mike Gosling and Winston Abreu going to get DFA’ed?

I think the issue, strummer, is that we didn’t get anyone that looks like they’re really going to help us that much in 2011 and, if that’s the case, why make the deal?
What are the chances that we can compete next year? Well, keep in mind the ongoing Carmona experiement. Keep in mind that we still have Westbrook returning. And keep in mind that Laffey has just returned — and we haven’t even gotten Scott Lewis back. Rondon is also pitching well in AAA and could be a factor come spring training.
Basically, you’re looking at the possibility of having an actual, solid rotation, 1-5. Moving Lee, though, unhinges that completely. Even if Westbrook returns to form, he’s no ace. And I don’t think anyone is willing to even consider Carmona as such until he proves himself again.
We also have a couple of arms from the St. Louis deal that could help our bullpen next year, not to mention the fact that both Perez and Lewis have made real progress in AAA since being sent down. Joe Smith has struggled, but, in theory, he’ll start the year healthy, which would help.
In other words, an awful lot could have changed from this year to next, but now we’ll never know. And if we’re shooting for 2011 now, it would have been nice to get guys who could actually help us then.

Here’s what’s funny to me.

Everyone is glossing over the fact that we got four of the top ten prospects in the Phillies organization.

I understand people would be upset about this trade. We got not one name from the rumored Halladay deal here. But why can’t Carrasco contribute in 2011 exactly LACF? What definitive proof do you have to offer that he will be a complete bust? None. He’s a prospect and he’s unproven. I’m not saying he will be amazing (or even good), that’s hypocrisy, but this is my point. We have to wait and see. We should get ticked off about this trade in two years if all four suck. Not the day of.

Also you have to love a guy that hits 98 on the radar at the age of 18. Sure he might flame out and oh no he’s on the DL! He’s also 18 pitching longer and with more intensity than he ever has. Growing pains. I love the Indians but I can’t stand some of you fans that overreact to something not yet proven. I hope this trade produces two solid pitchers for the next 6-8 years for the Tribe. Not for the sake of the tribe but just to shut all of you up. Remember how awful we felt when we traded Colon for a great prospect named Brandon Philips and some mid level guys named Lee and Sizemore. After that trade I don’t know how we can jump to such ridiculous conclusions like “Fire Shapiro over this trade” or “we got robbed”. We said that when we traded for Colon. Worked out well. Plus by saving the money we would have had to pay Lee next year maybe we can use it towards an extension of Sizemore or Choo.

strummer, you are off your rocker for SO many reasons.

First of all, the idea that we give an extension to Sizemore is laughable. Second, and most of all, EVERYONE throughout baseball and EVERY intelligent baseball fan flat out KNEW that the Indians robbed the then Expos for Bartolo Colon. Everyone! So I must disagree with you when you try to play the history card because there is a reason why EVERYONE in the baseball circles is saying that the Indians took 50 cents on the dollar for Lee.

Strummer?? it doesn’t matter how good these prospects might be, the fact is that two of them (50% of the deal) are road blocked by other players (Santana & Cabrera). If this trade was to rebuild for 2011 then it makes no sense. Donald and Marson might turn out to be excellent players, but if they never get a chance to play for the Indians what good will it be to us.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Follow

Get every new post delivered to your Inbox.

Join 63 other followers

%d bloggers like this: