Could a DeRosa deal be in the Cards?

St. Louis general manager John Mozeliak is looking for a third baseman. And in describing what he’s looking for to reporters earlier today, he might as well have just said, “Mark DeRosa.”

The Cardinals need a third baseman because Troy Glaus has shoulder ligament damage. The most updated timetable for his return is mid-July or early August.

Basically, what Mozeliak is looking for is a right-handed bat (check) who can play third base (check) until Glaus returns, at which point said bat can slot in elsewhere in the field (check).

The Indians, as you know, have had DeRosa basically on the block for a couple weeks now, because his value to them isn’t anywhere near what it was before Jhonny Peralta moved to third base. So this could be an interesting situation to watch in the next couple days.

In return for DeRosa, the Indians would want Major League-ready pitching. I’m told the Cardinals could potentially make right-handed starter Mitchell Boggs available in a trade, but what the Cards really have to offer is an army of right-handed relievers, such as P.J. Walters or Chris Perez . Jason Motte is probably less likely to be dealt.

We’ll see what happens, if anything.

In the meantime, just a note that I will not be with the club in Minnesota, so the blog will be lineup- and minutia-less for a few days.

76 Comments

Mitchell Boggs looks very promising. PJ Walters? Not so much. Chris Perez looks like a good option, but tonight notwithstanding I’d rather see us get a starter than a reliever.
This is great to read, AC. Thanks for keeping us posted — and giving us some hope!

Sounds like from reading the post, something is close with the two teams? The Indians want Major League pitching, but most of these guys have only a couple of innings under their belts. Boggs only has 10 starts in two seasons, Walters only has pitch 10 Innings in his career. Not a whole of experience their to make a strong turn around and or expect a lot from them, they are still young and Inexperienced at the Major League Level.

True, 09indians, but Boggs seems to have a bigger upside than Sowers or Huff, and he’s a righty. While a guy like Brad Penny might bring experience, a guy like Boggs could become a key piece for the future and not just today. He’s almost like a two for one.
My main concern with Boggs is that he seems to average about 20 pitches an inning, which is the exact opposite of what we need. But adding him to our rotation would allow us to move Sowers or Huff to the ‘pen for long relief, particularly since neither of them seems very effective beyond four or five innings.
Any pitcher we get is going to be a stop gap, though, as I’ve mentioned before. We’re not going to find someone through a trade that will be able to match a healthy Westbrook or Laffey.

If they do happen to move DeRosa soon, they should definitely call up Brown, as it would seem like Wedge would start using Garko in the OF more often.

don’t count out the NYM dealing for DeRosa as well. Their scenario is eerily similar with St. Louis and Shapiro is good friends with Omar Minaya. While I still believe that DeRosa is a quality guy to have on our team, particularly if he were playing 2B, the reality is that he’s only signed for one year. Hence, easily expendible in the short term and positionally replaceable in the long term. Besides, Wedge has Jamey Carroll to play at 2B so he’s happy.

I just don’t understand this yahoo. Hey, lets call up LaPorta and only play him sporadically for 10 games out of a possible 23. Hey, lets call up Valbuena and sit him on the bench for the first 2+ weeks. Wedge ruins the confidence of young players. Ironic twist of fate considering he was a minor league manager.

Why stop at DeRosa? Lets trade Cliff Lee to Anaheim for a bag of baseballs, send Jhonny Peralta to Baltimore for some rosin bags, trade Garko to Japan to be with Tom Mastny for a PTBNL or cash considerations, cut bait with Victor Martinez in return for Clay Buchholz, and for the fun of it lets go old school and trade Eric Wedge for Cito Gaston.

can you tell my frustration is reaching its apex?

As a Cards fan, my preference would be for the team to keep Mitchell Boggs. PJ Walters isn’t bad, either; he’s just young and inexperienced. But the Cards are pretty deep with young pitching, and have their top 3 starters (Wainwright, Carpenter, Lohse) locked up for several years. They’ve shifted focus to player development recently; well, you have to do one of two things with the players you develop: play them or trade them. I’ve been saying for a month now that DeRosa would be the perfect pick-up for the Cards, and Cleveland stands to benefit. The Indians may not end up with another CC Sabathia in the deal, but they’l get some quality and some depth. Gotta start somewhere.

Chris
http://bird-brained.mlblogs.com

If Shapiro was willing to accept organizational guys/roster filler for De Rosa a deal would already have been done. Mitchell Boggs is the type of guy the Indians don’t really need…another back of the rotation starter. Shap should hold out for Chris Perez or similar and try to get the Braves, Cubs and Mets into the bidding. If the Cards won’t pony up with quality, I say keep De Rosa and let him play out the string. He should at least be a Type B free agent which means a sandwich pick.

Actually, Stepp, a back of the rotation guy is exactly what the Tribe needs. Huff and Sowers, to use a phrase so many around here have used, are AAAA pitchers; they don’t even really fill the back-end of the rotation quota. Besides, it seems like the people on the Cardinal site think Boggs has a high ceiling and only his inexperience is holding him back.
I’ve also heard that Jonathan Sanchez from SF is available for a bat. His ERA is higher, but his BAA is lower. He went to Ohio Dominican, to boot.
If it helps, AM, I think moving DeRosa will solidify the infield, or at least get Valbuena more time at second. Losing a guy who can play any position means Wedge will have to hold Carroll in reserve in case of injuries or late substitutions.
I would imagine third, short, and second will all see more concrete formations if we deal DeRosa.

You make good points. Shapiro said “I’ve probably slowed the effort to try to acquire,” Shapiro said. “We’re probably more in the middle ground right now. People may think we’re crazy, but we still like the core of our team.” according to Tom Verducci of SI.

That Verducci column seemed pretty blah. He doesn’t really add anything to the conversation about any of the teams he’s mentioned. But he is right about the Tigers; they’re the one team in the division that I think could go on a run.
It also baffles me when writers do things like call Grady Sizemore our best player, and that losing him to the DL is a blow. Well, it really isn’t, at least not this year. He hasn’t been playing well. In fact, moving him to the DL actually opens a spot in our line-up so we might get more production than before. It’s like writers have certain “facts” about teams that they have in their head, but don’t bother checking to see if they’re still accurate.

i recall our management telling us after we traded chris archer, john gaub, and jeff stevens for mark derosa that even if derosa ended up being a 1 year rental, we would end up with a top draft pick from whoever he signed with this offseason. possibly better than any of the 3 we gave up for him.
things seem to have changed now. i only hope we remember who we gave up when considering trade offers.
also hoping we don’t end up with another stop-gap starter or retread reliever in return.
always a proponent of the package deal, i would like to see the likes of a jordan brown and/or michael aubrey included in whatever deal.
both players are healthy and having great aaa seasons, but brown will turn 26 later this year, aubrey already 27 and neither seems to have a future with the parent club because of logjams at their positions. true that brown was left exposed in last years rule 5 draft. no takers. aubrey has an injury history too long to list here, but one or both along with derosa would certainly bring more of a return.
brown and aubrey are not getting any younger. it would be nice to get some return for these guys instead of losing them outright like we seem to do so often.
don’t know what we’ll do, but just hoping we think it through.
GO TRIBE!

What about the Indians reaching into the Cardinals AA ready talent? Could a guy like Pete Parise be on their radar? Perhaps he is ready to make the jump up to the majors to become a good set-up man.

And Cabrera goes down.
Maybe next year no one will pick us to win anything and we can start winning again.

I always love it when we get a runner to second with no outs and then fail to score.
Good times.

AC jinxed the trade. You would have to think with Cabrera down, the DeRosa thing is off until they find out details. If it’s anything serious, I don’t see Valbuena or Carroll as permanent infield solutions…at least in Valbuena’s case, not yet.

Cabrera seems to think he won’t end up on the DL. At the very least, he’s going to be out for a few days, I would think.
My thought? Call up Jordan Brown.
It makes the most sense to move Jhonny back to short stop at this point, and DeRosa back to third (they should still trade him for a pitcher, if they can). Brown has gotten some time int he outfield this year in Columbus and Garko can play out there, too. We need another bat and his is the best in AAA. It’s time to give him a shot.
I mean, who WASN’T desperate for a pinch hitter in the bottom of the ninth tonight when Trevor Crowe was due up?
And if we trade DeRosa before Cabrera is back, we can think about calling Marte up (I can’t believe I typed that, either) or give Carroll a regular gig.
But I think the time is now for Jordan Brown.

LACF, you know I dig your stuff. Creative, intelligent, always enhances a discussion… but you have an unhealthy obsession for Jordan Brown.

And while it would seem to make sense to have DeRosa play third we know Wedge won’t do it b/c well, it makes too much sense. Instead he will probably make Carroll the third baseman for most of the games intermixed with an occasional start at second.

I also am going to support your insanity and say that if we trade DeRosa in the near future then Andy Marte of all people would be a logical callup ONLY if he plays every day. Hence, I am saying that trading DeRosa and Cabrera going to the DL simultaneously would create a spot for him. That way we get an infield of Garko/Martinez, Carroll/Valbuena, Peralta and Marte. This scenario also hinges upon the (non)return of Hafner, who would significantly affect Garko’s time in the infield.

AM, I think the Indians need to do whatever they can to get Brown and Aubrey some time this year. They can’t have any clue what they have with those guys until they get some major league at bats. For all they know, Brown can bat .320 and hit 20 HRs … or he could be no good. At this point, this season is done. I still strongly advocate trading Garko, they know what they can get from Garko, and it’s unfortunately no enough (enough would be Victor numbers, BA over .300 and 20+ HRs, since as of now Victor is the1b of near future) Once Derosa and Garko are out of the way, they can give Valbuena and Brown/Aubrey a good look. At worst, they start next year in no worse position than this, with infield of Peralta, Cabrera, Valbuena and Martinez, with Santana competing to be starting C, at best, they find that Brown or Aubrey can really play, in which case the smart move with Santana coming along would be to trade Victor for a high value pitching prospect, and go into next year with a decent pitching staff

Regarding Derosa, I have to go back to what I said in December when they nade the trade to get him:

I don’t like this move at all. It would be ok if they were signing this guy as a free agent, but giving up Jeff Stevens for another Dellucci is crazy. I don’t see how he improves the infield over Peralta, Cabrera, Barfield/Carroll. Sure he hit 21 home runs last year, but his previous best was 13, and that was in Texas, which isn’t exactly a pitcher’s park. 21 is the aberration, I bet he doesn’t hit above .260 with 10 HRs … and that Jeff Stevens proves to be a better right handed reliever than Joe Smith By isavage30@gmail.com on December 31, 2008 4:54 …

Derosa’s played a little better than I figured, better than Dellucci, and I didn’t even consider Valbuena, going with Barfield/Carroll at 2b, but this was still as bad a trade as I thought. Though if he can hit 2 more HRs before he’s traded, .260 with 10 HRs will be exactly what we got. Hopefully we can get someone decent in a trade, though I doubt it, because of the curse of Brandon Philips. Jeff Stevens was the player to be named in the Philips deal, so we traded Philips first for what turned out to be a decent relief pitching prospect, but then traded him and 2 other pitchers for 2 months of Mark Derosa,who we’ll have to trade for a pitcher who will blow his arm out the next week, so only then can we say that Shapiro gave up Brandon Philips for nothing

I am so tired of people pushing Ryan Garko out of the picture!! What has this guy done to become expendable? He is a proven performer (led the team in RBIs last year), he gives 100% on the field and his attitude (from the outside looking in, anyway) is stellar. Victor can still be an everyday catcher, especially in light of the fact that the league has figured out that all you have to do with Kelly Shoppach is throw him fastballs up and breaking stuff away. Logically, in playing Vic at 1st Shop’s behind the plate. So what it comes down to is Shop’s bat vs. Garko’s, and Wedge (not to mention a disturbing amount of Tribe fans) seem to illogically go with Shoppach. With 2 strikes Garko chokes up and shortens his swing. We all know that 9 times out of 10, you get 2 strikes on Shoppach, there’s about to be a 3rd.
This really all boils down to the positional musical chairs that Wedge plays with this team – which this season has spun completely out of control. I disagree with the way he manages the team, he does nothing to instill a sense of consistency in his players, therefore no one gets comfortable in their individual roles, therefore you’re gonna have a damn hard time winning ballgames. With the fight we’ve seen from this team at times this year, I applaud the players, but I do not applaud the coaching staff and management. It’s time for a change.

Leon, I can only assume that the Indians don’t believe Martinez can handle catching every day, or he’d be doing so this year. So sending Garko away has nothing to do with choosing Shoppach over him. The Indians catcher of the future is Carlos Santana, not Victor or Shoppach. Of course, not sure why so many fans are in love with Garko, the future can certainly be better than 1B hitting .270 with 15 HRs and 15 doubles. For a guy as slow as he is, his slugging numbers are pretty atrocious, Garko has had one of the worst OPS of any 1B in the league this year and last. Which is why I hope Aubrey or Brown get a call up to see if they can do better, in this league, there aren’t many 1B who are doing worse

One final point regarding Garko, if you do think Garko is this hugely valuable player, then you must also think the Indians can get a decent player in return for him, right? Can you think of no area on the team that needs improved, even at the expense of Garko and 1B? Because the facts are that the 2 best regarded hitting prospects above A ball are a 1B and a C, Laporta and Santana, and the 3 best hitters by numbers this year at AAA are ALL 1B, Brown, Aubrey, and Laporta, the best hitting prospect at Kinston last year was a 1B, Beau Mills, who’s not hitting real well this year at Akron. Giemenez also seems to be a decent C. Given these facts, you really wouldn’t trade Garko for a good relief pitcher? Even with the inconsistency of the offense this year (inconsistency that has a lot to do with streaky players like Peralta, who can’t hit in April and usually has at least one other good stretch where he swings and mmisses more often than hits, and Garko, most of whose power numbers for the year comes over about 2 good weeks), they were 4th in MLB in runs as of a couple days ago. The offense isn’t the reason they are 10 games under .500

AM, I’m only high on Brown because, when Crowe came up in the ninth, I thought “they’ve got to have someone pinch hit for him” and realized they had no one, at least no one any better. Brown’s currently their best hitter in Columbus and he’s gotten some time in the OF (unlike Aubrey). So let’s give him a shot (at last) and let the Chosen One (LaPorta) have a full year in AAA.
isavage, I’m on the Garko bandwagon because I think he can perform, given the chance. His RBI and walks increased from ’07 to ’08 and I don’t see why his numbers wouldn’t continue to improve. But, I also agree with you: Santana is our catcher of the future. I think that means that Martinez is our first baseman of the future (I think he’s actually more essential to this team than Grady). So at some point we’re going to have to trade Garko, and to get value out of him we’re going to need to show him off a bit.
I mentioned it before, but I consider what had been our 1-4 our core (Cabrera, Sizemore, Martinez, Choo), and everything else is open to call-ups and trades, position-wise.

Leon, I don’t think people are pushing Garko out the door. We are simply realistic about the positional depth at his primary spot on the field. Additionally, I would make the argument that NOW Garko gives 100% on the field whereas last year he was in Wedge’s doghouse for something less that acceptable. That kind of thing sticks with an organization IMO. I would support isavage’s remarks that NO ONE is in favor of Kelly ‘the K Machine’ Shoppach playing in lieu of Garko but inevitably it becomes a Martinez-over-Garko decision based on positional eligibility. I would think Leon that you would agree that Carlos Santana is the future behind the plate (to think we only gave up Casey Blake and $ to get this up-and-comer). If we go in the Santana direction for 2010 then I’d like to see the organization make the same decision as the Baltimore Orioles did with Matt Wieters. Give him the opportunity to play EVERY day. No deviation from that!

isavage/LACF, I would agree that eventually Garko will probably be dealt but that won’t happen until we fall further out of the race b/c Shapiro banks on our second half success to overcome our first half debacles (though still no playoff appearances have come from those stretches, only choke jobs). Garko, DeRosa, Pavano, Carroll, Francisco, and perhaps Peralta are all expendable IMO simply because of contracts and what they would bring to a new club heading into the stretch run. I would LOVE to get a read on Brown and Aubrey at the ML level on a consistent basis. You are both correct when you’ve said that we need to know what we have with these players that are no longer “kids.” While I think Detroit will cool down from the current hot streak we have shown no signs of sustaining wins over the course of a month. We need to plan for 2010. Something I said WAY back when.

IS – I completely understand where you’re coming from re: Garko, and with circumstance being as it is I’d prefer to see him traded for a quality arm than have him giving up at bats to Shoppach and wasting time on the bench. That being said – I think that the guy deserves regular playing time. Sure, he’s not going to crank out 25 + homers a year, but it’s safe to say that he’s a guy that can put up .280/20/100 w/ 90 k’s vs. Shoppach who is potentially .250/20/60 w/ 200+ k’s. Not to mention the BA w/ runners in scoring position – there’s no comparison between the two.
My argument comes down to Shoppach getting Garko’s at bats, and Wedge’s apparent issues with Garko. I don’t get it. I believe that Garko would put up better numbers with more consistent playing time, and I can guarantee if we trade him he will be extremely valuable wherever he ends up.
Sure, Garko isn’t Pujols, but Aubrey’s been given a look and hasn’t performed. Bringing up Jordan Brown would also include a learning curve, where at the very least with Garko we’ll have an idea of what sort of consistent production we’ll get. There are no easy answers with this team at this point. All I know is that I’m tired of the managerial direction of the team. I’m not saying I could do a better job – but like I said in my previous post – if a player doesn’t have a consistent view of their role, they will not succeed because they will never get comfortable. A sense of the “team” never develops because everyone is doing everything. It’s chaos, and at this point, it’s out of control.

and now I’m going to take a page out of isavage’s book regarding DeRosa:

This is a questionable move in my opinion, a stance which appears to be in the minority from reading most responses. Here’s my issue with it: Shapiro claims to be strapped for cash after signing Kerry Wood but he just took on a $5.5M contract. He obviously decided that infield help was more important than a middle of the rotation pitcher. This is a veteran move for only 2009 when clearly Shapiro is building more towards 2010. Marte and Barfield won’t break camp with the team. I just cannot understand why we gave up on Josh.
By amseeley@gmail.com on December 31, 2008 3:58 PM

As a cardinal nation member, I DO NOT want this trade to happen. First off, when DeRosa was with the Cubs, I was never impressed with his glove anyway…..and he is approaching 35 years old………Mitchell Boggs just turned 25 years old. I dont think he is gonna go out there and win 20 games but as a number 3 starter he can consistanly win you 13-15 games year after year with Dave Duncan’s help. I remember his first major league game in 2008 was a start in Boston where he pretty much shut them down for 6 innings……..this guy is 6-4, 215lb, he is young and cheap and has nothing but upside. And according to KMOX radio out of St. Louis, the Cardinals have inquired more about Hank Blalock from Texas than DeRosa. Blalock provides more power and is way younger. The Cardinals will almost for sure bring up Brett Wallace (the first round 2008 pick to be at third for 2010) as he has hit the cover off the ball at every stage in the minors. Blalock then can be moved to a outfield position, I doubt very seriously Rick Ankiel will be with the Cardinals next year. Indians fans, keep DeRosa.

Leon, your last paragraph was nails. Right on man.

clawson, as a Cardinals fan does Blalock’s history of injuries concern you when potentially discussing him filling in a role for another injury-prone guy?

Blalock has spent his time on the DL along with alot other power hitters the last 4 years, but your trading for the chance to have him in the number 6 spot, 2003 he hit 29 homers and 90 rbi’s, 2004 he had 32 and 110 rbi’s, 2005 he hit 25 and 95 rbi’s. The argument is the Cardinals want to trade for a impact bat, deRosa is simply not the impact bat they need, his upside is he can play multiple postions and has a decent average. If we are gonna trade Mitchell Boggs, I want Blalock in return, not deRosa. DeRosa currently has 8 home runs, the tandam of Brian Barden and Joe Thurston have 5 home runs, so you can say your getting DeRosa for his power, and everybody says he a great clubhouse guy, who cares, we need another power bat. And with his almost 6mil salary and almost 35 years old, I think he might be harder to unload than you think. My guess is you will have him the rest of the season.

I like DeRosa and I’d hate to see him go, but I think that if we get into July and this team’s still in the cellar he’s gone. We’ll likely see a yard sale and we’ll have a second half rebuilding project where we won’t really give anyone an extended, consistent look – a playing time free-for-all where 10 pitchers will get between 6 – 20 innings each and 8 position players from the minors will get 200 at bats between them. My hope is that we see coaching changes along with that.
Also, Josh Barfield is the next Brandon Phillips. Just watch…

good analysis as you bring up solid points on Blalock. Potentially being feast or famine IMO but if you’re going to trade a young pitcher then I can see your point of wanting a younger player for more than a 3 month rental. I will kindly disagree with DeRosa being difficult to unload. While getting $5.5M this year, the responsibility of the remainder of that contract to his new team won’t be significant, perhaps $3M at most. Not to mention he would likely be a Type-B free agent and net someone a sandwich pick for 2010′s draft (previously mentioned by isavage I believe, not me so I won’t be stealing credit for that remark). Additionally, he is “battle tested” in the playoffs as well.

Leon, the Brandon Phillips debacle will forever define Mark Shapiro and Eric Wedge’s tenure in my mind. Complete lack of intelligence. I am biased though. I had the opportunity to meet that young man and talk with him for about an hour. For what its worth, as a Barfield fan too, I hope a change of scenery does him extremely well.

I agree AM, the Tribe will have zero issue unloading DeRosa to a club looking for help through the stretch run, especially a younger club looking for a veteran presence.

The Cardinals have also inquired about Beltre and Atkins. Dont know much about Beltre the last few years since he’s left the dodgers but what I do see is his current salary, which scares the B-Jesus out of me. And the Cardinals I think are more concered about Atkins away from Coors production as well. I think Blalock makes the most since as far as the Cardinals are concerned. But Im not getting my hopes up. Cardinal brass were supposed to make a move this time last year but ended up doing nothing and we slipped out of the wild card the last few weeks of the season, so I will believe it when I see it.

Also like to say re: dealing Garko – it’s true that Martinez likely can’t catch every day at the moment due to the knee injury, but if we’re going to deal anyone I would rather that we deal Shoppach than Garko, not just because I’m a Garko fan, but also because I think we’d get more for Shop. People bring up the fact that his stock has likely dropped since the winter, but we will get more for a catcher with his defensive skills and his decent bat. Trade Shoppach, give Martinez back his starting job and bring back Sal Fasano!!! Santana will be here, but that won’t be until at least next year. Then we’ll turn Garko into a middle reliever if Wedge is still around…

Leon, I don’t think it’s an either/or situation between Jordan Brown and Garko. That was part of my rationale in saying we should call him up, that Garko is actually going to get more time in the outfield, either because Cabrera is injured and DeRosa has to go back to the infield, for they trade DeRosa. Choo has been great and will only get better, but we’re surprisingly thin on quality offensive outfielders.
As for DeRosa, I think he WAS brought in for just a year. I think isavage mentioned he was brought in as insurance for Cabrera, but I would argue that he was brought in as insurance for Jhonny. Let’s face facts: they blew it. Jhonny should have been the 3rd baseman for day one. They all knew it had to happen, but they dragged their feet on it. Because of this, the team wasn’t able to prepare accordingly — or make deals accordingly. But I do think Shapiro was planning for 2009 when he brought DeRosa on board, and I think he truly thought our rotation would hold. I always thought that was debatable, but I never thought it would be THIS bad.

By the way, the Sal Fasano bit was a joke – but not the Garko as an MR… we’ve tried him everywhere else…

There are plenty of teams who have interesting in DeRosa. Heck, the Cubs could really use him right now. SF could be an interesting option. We’d probably have to put together a package with one or two prospects to get Sanchez, but he seems like an interesting option. He’s still young and seems to have regressed a bit this year, but could have potential.
And let’s not forget the Mets, who seem to lose another player every day.

LACF, I couldn’t agree with you more. You’re dead on about Peralta, they were talking about him playing at 3rd last fall, he should have been the starting 3B from day 1 this year instead of screwing him around – and I wouldn’t be surprised if all of this has to do with his struggles at the plate this year. I agree with you too about the pitching rotation – I think that Shapiro & Co. were overly ambitious about the potential of this pitching staff coming in to the season, when really everyone was question mark. Cliff Lee won the Cy Young last year – but I know I’m not the only one who felt like what he did last year was WAY over his head. The expectations for ’09 were unrealistic, and between that, the injuries and the poor coaching this team is a mess.

Question for all you fine folks: Do you think we’d be better off conceding the season now and concentrating on next year? Or is it still reasonable to think we can pick up a few games in the standings by the All Star break (which assumes we’ll be healthy and good after that)?

With Cabrera on the DL, this season is officially a lost cause. They should look to trade Shoppach, Garko, Derosa and Pavano before the trade deadline, and should send Carmona to the minors once Westbrook and/or Laffey come back, maybe Carmona can get straightened out for next year

isavage, that was actually my first thought when I posed the question — send Carmona to Columbus. Get him off the big stage and let him work it out on a smaller one.
Other things we can do once we give up (how sad is that statement?): play Valbuena every day to see if he’s worthy of the job, trade all the guys isavage listed above, keep Gimenez or Toregas on the major league roster to back up Victor after we trade Shoppach, but also to make room for Santana in Columbus, look at guys like Brown and Aubrey, give our platoon of AAAA pitchers a chance to improve against major league hitters (why not?) — not just Sowers and Huff, but maybe even Jackson, who’s proving he really is a AAAA pitcher in Columbus right now. And we can give guys like Westbrook, Laffey, and Lewis all the time they need to come back healthy.

As a big Cubs fan and as an even bigger Mark DeRosa fan, let me first of all say that when he was traded to the Indians on New Years Eve, I was SO upset – but I decided I could handle it because it was at least an AL team and I’ve actually been watching a lot of Tribe baseball this year. If DeRosa gets traded to the Cardinals, an NL team in the Cubs division – I might lose it. The Cubs were stupid for getting rid of DeRosa in the first place & I hope he can at least finish out the year as an Indian without becoming direct competition. Also, I live in Phoenix and I’m going to Chicago for the Cubs/Indians series, so he better not get traded before then!!!!!!

I’ve got two words for you: TOM GLAVINE. I am not quite ready to set sail on the season just yet but I’m close, however I have been talking with friends about sending Carmona down to Columbus. The Indians maintain that he’s not a quick fix (their words, not mine) and thus begs the question: WHY is he here then? I’d rather have someone like Zach Jackson, Hector Rondon, Tomo Ohka or Ebby Calvin ‘Nuke’ Laloosh going every fifth game. Given the money they gave him and perhaps that is why they don’t exercise that last option year on him, we should be thinking about Carmona’s future beyond his 2009 season. Now that the trade market has officially started with the Braves acquiring Nate McLouth, I see no reason why the Burnin’ Cuyahoga don’t aggressively look for a Mark DeRosa suitor (still would hate to see him go), call up Andy Marte to play 3B every day, send down Valbuena since he’s obviously overmatched at the plate and compensating in the field, let Barfield/Carroll split time at 2B, and then PRAY that they close the gap within 5 games by the end June.

I am with LACF on this point: a healthy Scott Lewis, Aaron Laffey and Jake Westbrook in particular, not to mention Sizemore, Cabrera, Betancourt, and Joe Smith in addition to anything positive we get out of Travis Hafner the rest of his career is a severe bonus. I’m not giving Wedge excuses since the team sucked as a whole prior to all the injuries. Just noting the significant players that will be out for the next 4-6 weeks. In Wedgie terms, if we can ride out the injuries we will have a chance blah blah blah. I have a desperate and hopeless fan. I need to stop commenting at 3am when I get off work.

I have refrained from telling this story but given the state of our team I think it could potentially provide some conversation while AC is on hiatus not to mention it’s 3:30am and I’m fried mentally.

I have a friend. She is the wife of one of the Indians trainers and as Tony Rizzo says, “No Names, Please.” While the Indians have played like garbage the entire season as we find ourselves in the proverbial hole once again thanks to another stellar start during Eric Wedge’s tenure it has become common for Wedge, Derek Shelton and Carl Willis to say goodbye to one another with the following phrase: “I hope to see you tomorrow.” This is not me creating a story. This comes from my friend who was given the information from her husband (the trainer).

With this information I ask this question: given our coaches absolute refusal to alter their course of actions this season from seasons past, does this surprise anyone?

I mean, if you seriously think your job is one the line you have two choices. (1) totally proceed in the alternative fashion to which you always have in hopes of showing your ability to adapt, OR (2) continue to exude confidence in yourself by maintaining course and maintaining “the grind” because it has been the club’s mantra from your arrival Day 1. While most of us commenters have said we prefer the former our organizational leaders have chosen the latter.

wow, 7 runs and 5 outs for Carmona. Anyone else think we should send him packing for Columbus…?

Nevermind Fausto’s ’07 season. Nevermind Fausto’s killer sinker. The guy just isn’t doing it, and he gets worse and worse with each start. I think that ANY of our minor league pitchers could perform better. Seriously, we need to get him down to work out these problems.

Ohka has thrown three scoreless innings after Fausto gave up 7 runs in just two. So, yes, I’m with AM (and everyone else, I think) on this: I’d rather see our AAA guys get the call then watch Carmona melt down any further.
As for Glavine, I don’t think he would help. He’s 2-4 with an ERA of 5.54, and that’s in the National League. While a stop gap doesn’t need to be great, he does need to be better than what we have. Sowers’ ERA is just above 6 and he’s been pitching in the tougher league all year.
Then again, we could probably get Glavine for cheap and maybe he could help give advice to the youngsters. In which case, I’d take him, but not in hopes of saving this season, more in hopes of preparing for the next.

You know what’s particularly annoying about today’s game? The Tigers are losing again. A quality start and we have a chance at being just 6 games back.

I’m a little suprised Hector Rondon is still in Akron. Given the problems with the rotation, I would think they would roll the dice and see how he performs in Columbus….unless they are thinking more towards the 2009 season. To be honest, I don’t know where to place the rotation blame. Without a doubt, Carmona, Huff, Sowers or whoever else has been spot starting, have been struggling either with their command, or with making the transition from AAA to the Majors. While I think an element of this can be attributed to the pitchers themselves, I would think that a manager or a pitching coach who are truly making their best efforts, would be able to help these guys through their problems. Right now, there has been no progression. In fact, there has been more regression than anything. Correct me if I’m wrong, but this sounds like a management issue more than a player issue, correct? Carmona has amazing stuff, if he is at the top of his game. Maybe these young guys just need guidence.

I think it was cantonguy and I who had a long back and forth on this, until I looked at the numbers that Edward Mujica is putting up in San Diego: 2.39 ERA, 28 Ks, 7 BB. Compare that to his 6.75 ERA with the Tribe last year. Sure, the NL is easier on pitchers (they pitch to a pitcher and don’t face a professional hitter), but that’s a HUGE difference. And we basically gave him away. Obviously, the ability was there and we just didn’t get it out of him, which means it’s a coaching issue.
Had you asked me that a few weeks ago, I would have argued the exact opposite.

Indeed. Seeing that significant change with Mujica was what began that thought process with me as well. Surely Shapiro sees it as well. If we don’t see a significant change by the All-Star break, I think we will by next season. Well, if it were me anyway.

I think that was me and cantonguy that you debated, LACF. Guthrie is probably the shining example, in his few innings over 3 years with the Indians, he walked 23 and struck out 24, with an ERA over 6. In 3 years with the Orioles, he’s walked 126 while striking out 288, with an ERA under 4. Guthrie and Sowers were similar that when they were coming up through the minors they were control guys, then all of a sudden they lost it, and Guthrie never found the control again until he immediately found it when he went to Baltimore. Sowers obviously hasn’t found it to this point. Carmona’s has a 3 to 1 strikeout to walk ratio in the minors, and it wasn’t even that bad in his 1-10 year with the Indians, almost 2 to 1, better than 2 to 1 in 2007, but then all of a sudden last year he’s walking more people than he’s striking out, and it’s getting progressively worse. Obviously it is ultimately up to the players, and I’m not even going to say Willis is a bad pitching coach, I honestly don’t really know what all goes into the job, but he’s certainly not working any miracles, and they might just benefit from bringing in someone different, a new set of eyes, someone who has some different ideas about things. As it is now, the only pitchers who seem to have success with the Indians are veterans who’ve been around for a while and have picked up a lot of things from various sources (Lee, though it took the trip to AAA to figure things out, Sabathia, Pavano, Millwood, Westbrook), and guys who just came up from the minors (Carmona, Perez, Lewis, Sowers, Laffey, Fernando Cabrera, even Mujica, 18 innings, 2.95 ERA with 0 walks and 12 SOs his first year) … so basically, guys who don’t need a pitching coach, and guys who were recently coached by someone else. Lee is the only pitcher who the Indians have developed through their system who’s maintained success for more than 1 year since Willis took the job in 2003, and for a while, it really seems like Lee was going the way of Carmona and Sowers, walking people, not being able to put guys away, nibbling at the corners (I don’t count Laffey as a success because he suddenly has a 1 to 1 ratio himself this year)… but it seems the Indians’ way of thinking is that if something isn’t working, to keep trying the same thing over and over again, so I doubt they will make a change or that Willis will suddenly figure out how to work with Fausto Carmona and Jeremy Sowers

Lets not get on the Mujica bandwagon just yet. He had every opportunity to showcase his talent in Cleveland and failed. Perhaps his small sample size of success originates from playing in the ultimate NL pitcher’s park. Or maybe NL batters don’t have a read on him yet. It’s too early to say that the Indians threw him away. He’s got 23 G, 26.1 IP and 6 holds. At one time last year he threw like 12 scoreless innings with only 6 hits so we know he’s capable. He just couldn’t keep the ball in the park.

On the Carl Willis discussion, I would agree that a new set of eyes is what our pitchers need. Not that I am favoring the in-house promotion, but Scott Radinsky and Jon Nunnally have obviously shown their skills at the AAA level. Nunnally should get a bonus for Andy Marte’s numbers alone.

nice post thanks!!!

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new set of eyes is what our pitchers need. Not that I am favoring the in-house promotion, but Scott Radinsky and Jon Nunnally have obviously shown their skills at the AAA level. Nunnally should get a bonus for Andy Marte’s numbers alone. Multimedia degree

Nunnally have obviously shown their skills at the AAA level. Nunnally should get a bonus for Andy Marte’s numbers alone online degree school

I am favoring the in-house promotion, but Scott Radinsky and Jon Nunnally have obviously biology degree

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